Ep 38: A Transformative Journey: Sober Coaching with Jennifer Peterson
In this episode, Jennifer Peterson from Metamorphosis Life Counseling recounts her transformation from a successful real estate professional to licensed mental health counselor and sober coach. She shares her personal journey to sobriety, including the pivotal moment that led her to embrace an alcohol-free lifestyle. Jennifer discusses how she now empowers women to explore life without alcohol, offering coaching and counseling that focus on mindfulness, breaking the guilt-shame cycle, and addressing the underlying anxieties and stresses that lead to substance use. Throughout the conversation, Jennifer emphasizes the importance of self-love, setting boundaries, and finding authentic joy and purpose.
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Well, hey there and happy day. I could not be more delighted than to introduce everyone to my friend Jennifer Peterson from Metamorphosis Life Counseling, right? She's now being the words. Hey, Jennifer, how are you? Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I am so thrilled to have you and I have to tell everyone. We were just doing deep breathing exercises and I swear that my lungs are for crap, right? I have the worst lungs, but it makes me feel so good to do that and to have somebody kind of taking you through it. I love it. Yes. Yeah. And I do that with my therapy clients all the time. Do you? Okay. So when you say therapy, we mean mental health therapy, right? Yes. Yes. I'm a mental health. Yep. I'm a licensed professional counselor. Yes. I love to hear that word licensed in there. It gives me nothing but joy. So, and you're an empty nester. Yes, yes, we are. Heck yeah you are. Yeah. So we have known each other, my gosh we went away for a weekend together because we had a mutual friend and your kids were little little. We went to Deep Creek Lake. We went to Deep Creek Lake out in western Maryland, so much fun. And back then you were like the real estate guru. Yes. You were doing the thing. What made you make the jump? What made me make the jump? Loved real estate. Loved helping people. You know, that was, that's always been my passion. Yeah. I had kids. The hours were pretty intense. You know, you had to be on for all your clients 24 seven. Ooh, that is intense. Yeah. Do that intensity now with the therapy? Well, with therapy, I have, I set boundaries, right? That's good. And I'm not on call, you know and I try and leave my work at the office. But I did go through some different, I, when I stopped selling real estate, I actually, Owned three curves fitness facilities. Oh, I forgot about that. You had right you'd want right down for my business When I first opened the business Mm hmm sold all those Then I just went back and just became mom and I Substitute taught and I worked in the school system and then I'm like, okay My kids are that empty nester time is drawing near right? What do I what do I do now? So when my kids were in middle school, I started going back to school and taking classes to become a counselor What drew you to counseling? I think what drew like I said, i've always been On a mission to help others, you know, when I was selling real estate, I was selling real estate to help people obtain a goal, right? And there was a lot of counseling involved in that same with opening the curves. I'm like, I just need to hang a sign on my door that says counselor, right? Cause that's what I did all day, I always counseled women when they came in to work out. I don't know. It's just always been a passion of mine. That's so cool. That's so cool that you found so many avenues. It's like every step has brought you one step closer to this. Yeah. And you just opened your own private practice. Private practice. Yeah. That is such a big deal. Thank you. I'm in Urbana. Okay. I have in person sessions. I have women coming in. Mostly women. I was just going to ask. I have a handful of men, but mostly women. And is there, I mean, is there a specific area of the therapy that you love or that you're kind of focusing on? Yeah, I see a lot of women with anxiety. Well, and now. And now. Everybody's anxious about everything, right? Absolutely. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Anxiety is probably number one anxiety, depression, a lot of women going through life transitions trying to figure out, becoming empty nesters, trying to figure out what their next steps are. I do a lot of values based counseling, helping. What's that? Helping people find their purpose based on their, and set goals. Based on your values, like what you value. Can I just say, I feel like everything about me is calming down just talking to you. Because you have this very soft, sweet way about you. It's so lovely. Thank you. Is that something that your patients say? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's all that deep breathing we did. It's all that deep breathing we did. I do love a deep breathing exercise. Is that something that you would do normally with patients? Yeah, I do a lot of it with mindfulness and, you know, teaching my clients, we need to be where we are, not where we think we should be. And being present with compassion, curiosity. I love that because I'm always like where I should be instead of where I actually am. Right. Right. Where you are, not where you think you should be, even on the present. Anxiety is when we are so focused on the future, right? Yeah. Depression is when we're looking at the past, right? But mindfulness is being right there in the present. in that present moment. It's the only thing we can control is where we are in the present moment. And what do we always have with us? Our breath. Yeah. Yeah, look at that. Look at that. I am, like, I'm going to leave this all zen. All zen. This is so awesome. Alright, so you've just started your own private practice. Which is so good. And you're doing the counseling, and you're doing the coaching, you're doing both of these things, primarily working with women, have a handful of guys. And like, what is it about this, this time where you are right now that you love? What is it right now that's bringing you joy? Just setting my own schedule. Yeah. That's such a big thing. It is huge. And it's also like I talked about a little bit before, it's like, as my kids get older, you know, my son just moved to North Carolina with his girlfriend. My daughter's a senior in college and she's going to be finding her own path forward. And it's like, okay, what is my purpose? Right? Yeah. And it's a big deal for women that are going through that empty nest. It's like finding our identities, right? We were moms. We were wives. We were friends. You know, we were a PTA president. I wasn't personally. Me either. You know, we ran, we ran our kids around to all of their soccer games and, you know, that was our lives and, you know, working as well, but it's like, I feel like I have found this purpose in another. aspect that we haven't talked about is I also work with women that are Curious about living that alcohol free lifestyle Well now I am so glad you brought that up because this is a big this is a big thing right now Right? It is. Yes. So I think we had, I mean, alcohol is part of things, right? It's just, it's just how it is. And the pandemic hit. I mean, everything was starting with all of the breweries and all of those being open. And then the pandemic hit and I feel like everybody like started going a little harder because what, what else were you going to do? Right. Included me, right? So then the pandemic, I guess the pandemic's over. What a fizzle. And people, like now, I'm seeing, I think things are changing a bit. I, personally, I've never been a big drinker. I'm a, I talk a really good game about it. But generally, I do love a delicious cocktail. I really do. But I know a lot of women are having an issue now where Maybe they're not alcoholics, but they, you know, maybe they feel a little out of control and the whole alcohol free thing. What, what can you tell me about this? Well, like you said, I, I stopped drinking, it'll be two years in July. Nice. And I'm so proud of myself. You should be! I am so proud of myself. And I Well, I found myself and you know, you and I talked about this a little bit when we met in that coffee shop back in the fall. I had just found myself, like you said, through the pandemic that I was just looking forward to that five o'clock, right? When I could make that fun little cocktail. And then, you know, the empty nester stuff came along and you're right. Breweries and wineries and try, you know, just having. A lot of fun out there, right? And then we bought we bought a place in Ocean City. We have a little place right there on the beach, which is super fun. But then I found myself reliving like my 20s again, having my orange crushes and all that good stuff and and the wine, wine, you know, it's so like, it just became a normal part of my life to come home from work and just start cooking dinner and just open up that bottle of wine. It just. Wine mom culture is a thing. Like I don't, I don't remember, I mean, my mother, I remember watching her have a drink one time in my entire life, and I mean, it was so significant that one of my. Like 45 years later, and I still remember it. I mean, she would not touch alcohol. It wasn't, I don't think it was as much of a thing when we were growing up, but the wine mom thing, right? It's wine o'clock. It's mommy's little helper. Mommy's little helper. It's five o'clock somewhere. Right. All of that stuff. Yeah. I really love my wine. You know, we still have a stocked wine cellar in the basement that I'm like, okay, what are we going to do with all this? But I would find myself cracking open that bottle of wine while I'm making dinner and sometimes. That bottle would be gone, right? Okay. I would drink that whole bottle of wine. So, so what was it that made you want to make the change? Because you cannot make a change if you do not want to make the change. Exactly. And, you know, before I stopped drinking, I, it was in the back of my head for at least two years. At least, you know, since the pandemic, right? It was in the back of my head that, hmm, sometimes I just take it a little, I drink a little too much. I wouldn't drink every day, right? But some, when I did, I would just take it a little too far, right? And there's something that I forget who said this, Scott Fitzgerald or somebody, they say first you take a drink, then the drink takes you or something. I forget, but it's like you take a drink and then the drink takes you, right? It's like you take that one drink and then it's like, Oh, I need another, Oh, I need another. Right. And you just don't stop. So, and that wasn't me every time I'd go out and, you know, I could go to the brewery and have a couple of beers, but then sometimes I would go to a party and I'd be like, Oh my gosh. I got a little bit too wild and crazy. Wow. So, so what was it that made you want to change? What was your catalyst? So my catalyst was I, you know, like I said, we bought the place at the beach drink. I found myself, we were going out more. I was having hangovers. I'm like, what is that? Right. Started having hangovers, started just feeling like crap. I could only go out one day because the next day I like. You know, I didn't want to go anywhere near alcohol. So just started to not feel well feeling bloated, feeling inflamed. I could not lose weight to save my life. You know, that last 20 pounds and then I had an incident. I had an incident. Yeah. And that did it. That did it. It involved, and I won't go into too many details, but it involved. Our pool. Too many margaritas, and I got outta my pool after drinking all these margaritas with my friends in the pool. I'm walking out of my pool and I fell smack on my face. Ugh, smack on my face. Chipped my, ugh. Chipped my teeth. Mm-hmm Mm. Yeah. And the next morning I woke up and I had scrapes on my knees. My face had a big face plant rash on it. And I just looked at myself and thought, what am I doing? What am I doing? And I thought to myself, I asked my husband, I'm like, my kids come home because my son was still living at home. My daughter still lived here. But luckily they were both at their dads. Like they were not and I'm like if my kids would have seen me like that I would have been so embarrassed like no kid deserved to see their mom like that, right? Right, and I just looked at myself in the mirror and I'm like, okay This is my rock bottom, right? That is, that is such a, that is such a brave acknowledgement. I know. It is. It really is, because I think so many of us don't, you know, don't ever make that acknowledgement, whether it's alcohol or food or whatever. You know, so. I, I wish you were sitting here beside me so I could pat you on the back and say, look at you. And just so you know, you probably can't tell from here, but I'm looking at Jennifer and you are totally glowing. Like you look stunning right now. Your skin is so rosy and your hair is so, I mean, you guys can tell from the pic I'm going to put up, but you can tell, you can tell you look so fresh. Thank you. Thank you. And I feel I feel fresh. So how'd you do it? How did I do it? I I started listening to books. I actually had downloaded a book that I had actually listened to this book before I stopped drinking. So I had all, I, I knew, I knew I needed to stop before I actually stopped and it's called This Naked Mind. It's amazing. And it really talks about the science behind alcohol. Which so many people, more studies are coming out now about how alcohol, what alcohol does do to your body, but so many people did not want to talk about it two years ago. Even some of the health gurus out there, and I'm not trying to get all like holier than thou, but even health gurus out there are like, Hey, yeah, a glass of wine here, a glass of wine there. It's good for you. Right? Yeah. But when you really look at the science. There's nothing good about alcohol. No, I mean, it's poison. You're putting poison in your body. Listen, I'm still going to do it. I'm still going to have some. But with the amount that I drink. The one cocktail a month. I feel alright. I feel alright. I was putting a lot of poison in my body. And how did I do it? Wow, I mean, I really, really looked at my why. Why was I drinking? Right? And also, why do I want to stop? My why? I'm like, I want to be authentic. I want to be my true, authentic self with myself, with my family, with my kids, with my grandkids. I want to remember every moment. Right? Yeah. I don't want to be like, oh, that was really fun. What did we do last night? So, well, I want to be present. For everything. And when I really looked at it, I had terrible social anxiety. Oh my goodness, social anxiety all the way. I did the work. You know, I went to my own therapy and, you know, my social anxiety stems from Well, my childhood, which I could get into a whole nother podcast, but basically, yeah. For both of us. For both of us. Right. Right. But you know, I started drink when I was 15, right? Or probably even younger. Probably I think I was very young age and it was just such a part of our culture. I was a military brat. Worked really hard to fit in right as that chameleon, you know all my life and I would go into social Situations and I'd be like, okay I need that wine, you know, to take that edge off. And I really thought I needed to drink to take away my anxiety, to be more fun, you know, to just be, you know, thought I needed the alcohol, right? Since I've stopped drinking, all that social anxiety has gone away. It has gone away. It wasn't easy. It didn't happen overnight, right? Yeah. I can go into any situation. And I don't need alcohol, right? And I can have a conversation with people. I can go to a party. I can meet new people. I can, you know, I sit at tables all the time with people that are drinking. And I buy, I just get my bottle of SanPel. I'll put it in a nice little fancy wine glass. And man, I pour and drink and I'm like, if this is going, and you know, I just feel so empowered and so proud of myself. You know, that kind of led me to start this coaching business so I can help other women that are feeling the same way. Right? And that's why I want to put this out there to the world. You're not alone, right? And I want to empower women that life can be better without alcohol. Absolutely. That's so good. That's so good. Right? I mean, how does it feel to say that? It feels great. It feels really great. Yes. When I first, I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, no. Do you feel like this has given you renewed purpose in your life? Absolutely. Yes. And I love it. It has. And I'm glad you said that. I think it has. Yeah. Yeah. So here's another question. So as we're talking about it, one of the things, because I get terrible social anxiety as well. I have a really gregarious personality. So everybody thinks I can walk into things and I am. Very nervous and very uncomfortable, very unsure of myself when I do that, but the weight of that has started to fall off as the years have started to pile on, right? Because I no longer care so much about what other people think. It's like, I know I'm amazing. I tell myself all the time, but if you don't think I'm amazing, I'm just not the right fit for you. That's no longer a failing of mine. Right? So do you think that, do you think you, do you think That part of being able to make this change is part of where you are in your life. Absolutely, because like you said, I was always looking for approval from other people. Yeah. I was looking outside of myself for approval and just giving myself permission and giving myself the self love that I need makes all that go away. Yeah. And that's probably the same for you. The more we give ourselves our self care, our self love, you know, positive self talk, right? Yeah. The more we, it doesn't, we don't need that approval of everybody else. Now I will say it took me a long time to tell people I wasn't drinking. Well, I mean, I don't think this is easy. I hid it from people. Yeah. You, okay, so you went the other way. Instead of hiding your drinking, you were hiding your not drinking. I was hiding my not drinking. Yes, because I was. Okay, so why? Yeah, I, that's a great question. I think because, and things, like I said, things have really changed in the past year and a half. Yeah. A year and a half ago, I was afraid of being labeled. I was afraid people would think, oh, there was something wrong with me. You know, there was like shame and blame and guilt, like all wrapped up. Like, why can't I just drink like a normal person, right? But I just started to, like I said, shower the self love, work on myself, right? realize it doesn't matter what everybody else thinks. Right? Yeah. It matters what I'm doing for myself, for my family, for my kids, for my grandkids, for my future grandkids. Right? I want to be healthy. I want to live a long time. Well, and I mean, alcohol does not. Typically add to lifespan. I don't care what those studies say. I mean, about your glass of wine a day, but I guess, you know, I'm no scientist and I'm no doctor. So if you're doing the one, right, if you're doing the one glass a day, and even as I dig into Mediterranean diet, it does say wine occasionally, right? Right. But with me, Definitely add to your Occasionally, yeah, meant occasionally I was going to drink two or three bottles and, you know, fall in, you know, bruise my face and break my tooth, right? Yeah. Yeah. So with me, and you know, there are people definitely that can have the occasional glass of wine. Yeah. But that's not me. Yeah. And yes, you can moderate, but then you have to make a decision, right? It's so easy to say no to the first glass of wine. It's so easy. It is. It is. Say no to the second one? Oh, that's a little more difficult. Say no to the third? Oh my God. No, I'm not saying no to the third glass. So with me, I just say no to the first. Yeah. I don't have to think about it. You know, I, I agree with you. So I am always the designated driver, right? Because I never mind not having, like, it never bothers me. And everybody knows now. And they're always like, oh, I'd be happy to drive today. I'm like, no, I got it. Like, I am, I am doing something good. But you're right. That third glass, you cannot say no. You cannot say no. Yeah. And my poor husband, my husband was always the designated driver. I mean, it was just like a no brainer, right? And he could have one and say, you know, no to the second, third, right? But, you know, it was just a given, like, I would have never volunteered to be the designated child. I always volunteer. What about that day? It truly never bothers me because I know I'm going to get people safely where they need to be. I know I'm going to get me safely where I need to be. And I, I love that. It's, it's my way of being in service. To people right of that. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So what kind of support system did you have in place to be able to make this happen? Because It wasn't as easy as just flipping a switch, was it? And saying, Oh, I'm not going to do that anymore. And then it just went away. Yeah, no, it was not that easy. I wish it was that easy. Right. And I mean, let's be real here. There's days where I'm like, Oh, a glass of wine would be really good right now. Absolutely. Like that craving for that glass of wine does not go away. Right. But it's called urge surfing. You just kind of surf the urge. And then, you're like, I'm fine, right? But you know, sometimes, a little bit of stress and anxiety goes up, and you're like, and then it's like, okay. I have other ways I can calm myself down, right? I can do breathing. Yeah. But my support system, I did have a very small circle of friends that that did know that I wasn't drinking and they were very mindful. You know, of course my family, my husband I had my own therapy that I went to as well, as I think that is very wonderful. So I had the support of that and read a lot of books, just worked on myself, showered myself with self care, and just every day told myself that, you know what? I can drink as much as I want anytime that I want, and I'm just choosing not to drink. And I think that's huge. I think that's huge. I'm just making that choice. So how do you Okay, so you've taken this big thing that, and I refuse to call it anything other than it, just a big thing that you're doing. I just, I think it's super impressive, right? I really do. Because we are at the age where. You have to decide every day that you're going to get out there and move, that you're going to get out there and eat right, that you're going to get out there and do stuff, that you're not going to sit and watch TV all day, or all those things. Like, I watched my parents, right? So we're making the decision, and that is a big old decision that you made, something that was big in your life. So how do you support other women through making that change? Yeah. Well, thank you for asking that. So I do have I have women in my therapy office that I'm counseling through it. I have women in my coaching business that I have. That I coach them, right? Yeah. And, you know, and I tell them, you know, just, we always start out with, be, have an experiment. You know, see like when you are craving that glass of wine, what do you really need, right? What is going on, right? What emotions are you feeling? What stressful feeling are you in the middle of, right? What are you trying to numb? Which is huge, right? This is I'm talking about when I'm counseling, counseling. Yeah. Yeah. What are you trying to numb? Right? What? Because a lot of us turn to that alcohol to numb our emotions, right? We can't numb our emotions. We need to get all or else we're all just pressure cookers, right? Yeah. So I support them with that. We talk a lot about What to do when you're feeling anxious. We talk about setting boundaries, setting boundaries with your family and friends around alcohol. We talk about, you know, that guilt, shame cycle, and really we talk about what would my life be without alcohol. Right. And we really dive into that. We talk about emotion regulation. We do mindfulness explore relationships. There's so many layers to to I guess I should call it sober counseling and coaching. So layers because we drink let's just face it. I drank too much, a lot, a lot, too, too many times, right? So we drink. Think of like an iceberg, like, and there's many ways, and not everybody handles everything below the iceberg, which could be like, relationships, past trauma you know, so many things, we all have so much anxiety, depression you know, below the iceberg, does that make sense? Yeah. People handle it different ways. Some people handle it in very healthy ways, right? Some people turn to drugs, alcohol, shopping, overeating there's many unhealthy ways to cope, right? And alcohol is one of them. So one thing I do do when I'm working with my women on this, because it's mostly women, is we talk about, okay, you can't substitute. Shopping for alcohol, right? You really have to dig into what's underneath the surface. What you can't see in that iceberg under the, under that iceberg, if that makes sense. Yeah, that totally makes sense. That's a great explanation. I love that. I think this is so wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. And I'm hoping, you know, and what I do with the women that I coach I. The same thing applies to to food, you know, for overeating, binge eating, shopaholic, people that spend too much time on social media, that are addicted to their phones. You know, there's so many other addictions out there. Yeah. And this formula or whatever you call it that I use. It helps so many different people. And I feel better, one, knowing that I've helped them, right? But yeah, at the end of the day, I go home. It's very challenging work that we do. It can be, but if you find your niche and you find what brings me joy and purpose, which is counseling and coaching at the end of the day, I feel pretty darn good. This is a big conversation we're having today. It is, yes. It is, it is. And, and again, I don't want to understate, I think, the bravery that you have, not just in offering this, but I think there's something to be said for being a person who is going through it, who is dealing with it, or went through it, and dealt with it, and is now on the other side, helping other people to do the same. I, I think, you know, There is a tremendous amount of benefit by being able to talk to somebody who has been in your shoes, right? Absolutely. Yeah. All right. So if somebody wanted to talk to you because I am certain that of my four listeners There's someone out there. There's someone out there that is curious about what you have to say. Maybe, maybe they don't have a full blown alcohol problem, but maybe they just want to address where they are right now. How do they get in touch with you? Okay. Well, there's a few different ways. And again, we talk about, would my life be better with alcohol, without alcohol, right? My life be better. And that's what we're questioning, right? We're not telling them they have to stop drinking. They might decide, no, my life is better with alcohol, but if they're coming to me and they want to dive into that, yes, I can help them. So a couple of different ways to get in touch with me. I do have a coaching website. Which is metamorphosiscoaching. com. Okay. That's my coaching and my therapy. I am, like I said, I just opened my private practice, which is metamorphosislifecounseling. I know it's a mouthful. Well, we'll make it easy and I will make sure to have. The links in the show notes, so you guys don't even have to worry about spelling metamorphosis. Metamorphosis. I know. We'll have that. Did I spell this right? Yeah. We'll have that in there. You can find me on Psychology Today. Just look up Jennifer G E E hyphen Peterson. On psychology today. I'm there. But again, the links will be in the show notes email. Yeah, that's how I have. Oh, I have an Instagram, which is sober metamorphosis. Love it. My Instagram. I've kind of stepped away from social media a little bit. But I have some fun mocktail videos. I was gonna say you worry. Yeah, you I mean, I gotta bring everything back to food and after such a big conversation, you know, it feels so trivial to do that, but I know that mocktails are part of your vibe. So what's your favorite mocktail that you make? Well, my favorite mocktail is very super simple, super, super simple club soda, splash of cranberry. And a squeeze of lime. Oh, easy breezy. Easy breezy. Yeah. That is my, like, go to. But then, you know, you mix it up. You don't want to have that every time you go out. And I like to do, like, mocktails for the seasons. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, a lavender. Oh, I made rosemary syrup. Yes. So easy. I made rosemary syrup. Oh my gosh. So with ginger beer. Yeah. Really good. My favorite mocktail. I don't even remember where I found it, but it uses elderflower elderflower cordial. Now it's not alcohol. It's not alcohol. You can get it on Amazon. But it's, it's, it's almost like a syrup. I guess, but not quite. And it's got the elderflower, and club soda, and lime, and mint, and it is so darn tasty and refreshing. But the elderflower cordial is not easy to find. I mean, online it's super easy, but you're not gonna walk into Wegmans and get it there. But I will tell you, I use that, I put it in a big you know, like the big drink containers where you have a little spigot on it. I make that whenever I have a party and people go crazy for it. Oh, I need that recipe. Jennifer, I'm so glad you joined me today. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. Oh my gosh, totally my pleasure. I was nervous. Oh, didn't I tell you it was easy? Yes, you make it easy. Oh, stop. Everybody is nervous, but I think your message is so vital and so important and we are just getting started, right? Like, I seriously, I have the brain. I will not say 25 anymore. I have a 30 year old, right? The mindset and the body of much older than that. So we need to really value ourselves. We do. Keep moving forward. Absolutely. All right. Well, we have a lot left to give out there, don't we? Yeah, don't we though? Don't we? Yes. And you're doing amazing things too. And I will just put a little plug in. I've made three of your recipes from your empty nest. Oh, yeah. You're doing the menopause meal plans, right? Menopause meal plan. What do you think? I love them. I love them. Yes. I'm so excited. I have to say, just like you have found your purpose, I truly believe I've found my purpose here because I believe in it so deeply. I believe that even if you're done, right, if you're done with menopause and all that stuff, or you're in perimenopause. I really believe it's not a bunch of hocus pocus, not trying to sell supplements and stuff. It's just real good food. And it really, it tastes good. It's not hard to make. And it has really changed my mood around. I kid you not. And it's so easy because you give us grocery lists. Yeah. So easy. And I love that it makes only a smaller portion. Yep. I have doubled a couple of the recipes because I love the leftovers. Yeah. Well, and I was just going to say, and this was an unintentional plug. So yay. Thank you. I know. I was going to say, almost everything easily scales up if you want to scale it up. I scale them down basically and make the changes that you need to make there. But almost everything scales up really easily. So thank you for that. You're welcome. Oh my gosh, so nice. Alright, so listen, if you want to reach out to Jennifer, check the show notes. I've got it all in there for you. And You will have to wait for us to hop online and show you a couple of our favorite mocktails, but thank you to Jennifer and thanks to my four listeners for tuning in. As always, I'll see you in the kitchen.
